Discussion: Favoritism of Multiplexes, What decides our consumption of western cinema

Tushar says: I appreciate and relish world cinema and make sure I never miss wherever it happens in town, but I am also an avid Mumbai cinema fan. And I feel that some movies, though brilliant, simply go unnoticed, just by coming under the Bollywood/commercial/mainstream umbrella. What amuses me all the more in a surprising way in which the town reacts to contemporary Hollywood in an all-appreciative tone(which might not always be all that worthy of attention-debatable) and simply scoffs at some of the good products we have but never see the light of the day. It makes me sad to see that movies like Black Friday, Bhopal Express, Paanch, n a million others never see the light of the day and their deserved moment of glory in multiplexes like PVR where people put enjoyment over the real credibility of a movie as a reason to see it(excuse me for generalizing). I have tried calling up these multiplex places to screen some good Indian and western movies which deserve a theatre watch than the omnipresent pirated DVDs we get almost in every street now. In fact sometimes the reasons they give me for not showing the same are hilarious. Few months back, we had a national digital film festival happening across the nation in almost 8 cities in which Bangalore didn't feature. Sad. With so many movie enthusiasts around, if we get deprived of good original cinema, it is really unfortunate on our part. I was just wondering if we could do something about it. By the way, I did happen to see Mixed Doubles and loved it and wouldcompletely agree with idio.


Sid says: Like some wise man put it ever so pithily.. It's all about money honey. And don't you ever make the mistake to think that multiplexes are out there to promote "niche' cinema. That's for the birds. Hell, if a Mithun B-grader would bring in the throngs they wouldn't hesitate one second from pulling out a lovingly crafted small 'multiplex' movie and replacing it with a monstrosity. If the multiplexes were really out for cinema's sake, how come I can't recollect a single foreign film (other than a horribly dubbed version of "Kung Fu Hustle") playing? Let's face it.. The multiplexes have been around for quite some time now. If they really cared for "good" and "different" cinema they'd have started doing something about it by now. Mumbai is slightly better though. Almost like dispensing grace, the multiplexes have surprised me once in a while by showing the great documentary "War and Peace" and a brilliant lil gem of a movie called "Manasarovar" by Anup Kurian starring Atul Kulkarni. And as for local cinema.. I’d blame the critics too. What critics.. Some like bootlicking sycophants.
And the Times of India is the biggest ass-wipe newspaper that ever existed. All that fucking jargon- technosexual, metrosexual....
They are the one's who hand crappy movies like Zinda four whole stars. A shallow movie copied shamelessly and in the manner of a coward from a little Korean cult flick "Old BoY". And guess what Times had to say about it- nobody's seen the Korean flick.. so it doesn't make a difference. A newspaper justifying intellectual theft!!! Now, if tomorrow, i win a Super Lottery and put out a magazine called "Times of India".. i know they'd fucking sue me.
Other fuck ups-
Taxi 9211- three and a half. Copied shameless from the slick,topical, urban thriller "Changing Lanes."
Rang De basanthi gets 4 while Hazaron Khwaishien gets 3 1/2.
Waisa Bhi Hota Hai Part 2... a lovely movie, wholly original andquirky, a pyaar se banaayi hui uber-cool black comedy of a movie.. 2stars.
Praan Jaaye par shaan na jaaye.. another very flawed yet crazy,different movie.. one and a half stars.
Sehar gets 3 while Sarkar gets 3 and a 1/2.
and the master shameless stroke.. Salaam Namaste gets 3 and 1/2 andNeal and Nikki gets 3. Fucking Sell-outs.
Critics are supposed to promote good cinema andnot just Yash Chopra Productions. It’s rotten all through and through.

Tushar says: Right said fredAs you said, multiplexes are all sold out to the sole purpose of making money- whichever way they get it, they will go for it. But amidst this furor of recycled trash churned out frequently, we also see some good stuff, what I am saying here is that these underground movies do not necessarily and always mean good cinema, but they do deserve a decent play. Even I missed Mansarovar, American Dreams, Lets Talk, or for that matter, even HazaaronKhwaaishen Aisi, at the theatre i mean, which probably just came and went). What makes meconcerned(and frustrated but hopeful at the same time) all the more about our city is the way cities like Chennai have a good tuning between the class and mass inclinations. They do have their decent share of indie stuff along with the potboilers and money spinners. Satyam, Chennai hosted the Digital Film Festival few months back, and if I am correct even earned some handsome money from it. So if these people say, Show me the money!¨ they sure would not lose any if they go ahead and showcase/package/sell these films to an already existing target audience. I recall seeing a crappy movie called One Dollar Curry and the theatre being 70% occupied. It is all subjective, but then how many of these so called mainstream flicks attract a 100% occupancy inspite of some ridiculously incorrect rating by newspapers like TOI(which I have an entire list of examples to prove how ridiculous can ridiculous get). And by the way, Mixed Doubles is taken off today¡

Tushar says:hmmm..i don't know about last five decades...but i have seen loads of hollywood flops/hits doing wonders in india irrespective of their US feat. I am not complaining against any kind of collective response to a film but I do not understand the reason for this wow-culture. we goto watch the "biggie" with the presupposition that it would be great, its similar to seeing a great painting, though it might not make sense to you, you still applause it for the fear of derision/ridicule being an 'outsider'. i accept doing that myself with few films i saw long back, but now I realize they were not worth all the applause. recently i saw the same trend with Crash. it almost becomes compulsive to embrace it just like an expensive dish served on the platter. what disturbs me all the more is the lack of any reason or justification for it being "great". its almost like goin to hum aapke hain kaun with our parents when we were small, and liking it just cus there was no other available option! few english that fall in this category would be the "disaster/save- the-world" movies of late nineties, does it ring a bell?! ...still waitin to see jarhead, good night and good luck, munich, matador,broken flowers, coach carter in theatres... Malvika says"like i said earlier, Indians believe anything foreign has got to be good, regardless. it does not pertain only to movies take food items to we tend to believe the quality of all foreign foods is good, there is no doubt about that in our minds but when it comes to indian brands we tend to think twice before purchasing it. This holds good for clothes appliances and many more. its Indian mentality. It's what we are thought and believe it blindly without questioning why or who put this image in our minds."

Girish says:I don't know about food etc. but in case of cinema, you may have to re-write your argument with using the word 'American' instead of Foreign. If you are wondering who put this idea on our mind, you have only yourself to blame. We all have an obsession towards America that reflects in this group also. i was reading the list of films posted up by few of us in this group as the best films made in 2005-2006. All of them are American films, even though there are some amazing films are made in our neighboring countries, like Taiwan, Korea, Hong kong, Vietnam, Indonesia, Iran etc. Before we worry about why the public go behind the hype, we should see how far we gone on experimenting with our appreciation of films/cultures other than American/ English.

Tushar says:I accept that we have veered the discussion to an "American" viewpoint. Actually the whole thing started off when the question of "How much Hollywood do we Indians consume"(commercially, as in theatrical releases) arose. And as it happens, we had all kinds of viewpoints that came up. I am completely in sync with you when you say that our opinions are US-centric, but personally, I happily accept that I am a consumer of the American culture and look up to the products that are churned from them, be it arts or science. This is no way means, that I hold these products the most-worthy of attention, but this is just a personal preference.I know that it would be foolish to talk for our(or in fact, any) society at large, but we have been programmed to "consume" Hollywood on a regular basis, it started with the advent of Satellite television and has continued ever since. However, it is a pity that amidst this blind worship, we tend to lose on many a brilliant films (and other forms of art) by other parts of the world. Some of film societies like us or people in big cities do get their dose of world cinema but what about the rest of the country? For them, it’s the Spiderman's and the Godzilla's. Infact, we as a collective group of film-fanatics (if I may use the term) can make a dent in this blind faith. Whenever I hear about any film that I feel is worthy of attention, I would be the first one to tell you all about it, be it from the US or any other country. Furthermore, I would like to reiterate that in our discussion we had been talking about the commercial consumption of non-indian cinema, which fortuantely or unfortunately, is largely american. hope I do not spark off any argument, and that you take my views in a a amiable color.

Arky says:Well, every generation has common associations to certain words. Perhaps today when we say foreign it may be US-centered but our grandfathers’ generations it would have been Europe and England. I wouldn't like to comment on this topic because am not a student ofetymology, anyway its too ambiguous.

Sid says:I'm not talking consumer goods, electronics or clothes here. I'll just keep it to 'cinema'. I think the postings are mixing 'good/bad' with 'curiosity'. I think that there is more 'curiosity' and interest in a foreign film than an Indian film. 'Good' and 'bad' are very subjective. And also, where there is art there are phonies. Flies to a ladoo, rule ay life. and if the 'best of' lists on the BFS posting featured American movies, i think it's solely because of the reason that they're easily available at your friendly neighborhood DVD-wallah or play at your grotesquely over-priced neighborhood multiplex. No one can argue that there have been fantastic and superior films being made in Korea and Taiwan over the past few years but the catch being:- How the fuck do i get to see them?

Girish says:See, guys i am not in arguments for arguments sake, that is the reason why i don't write vey often on these groups. for example now the discussion happening in Collective Chaos group is insane, from past one month they are discussing one single topic, and the discussion didn't move an inch, only outcome is that people throwing mud at each other....... i am not interested that. i genuinely hope something nice will come out of all this talk. Over all i agree with Tushar on his views, and I respect his personal choice being a pro-American culture. Sure no arguments on that. But i would like to discuss two points come out or response to my mail, which i find worth few interactions.
1. idiosyncratic_fallout said: "No one can argue that there have been fantastic and superior flms being made in Korea and Taiwan over the past few years but the catch being:- How the fuck do i get to see them?" I think the search for a better cinema is the whole point. In my case I have started off with watching Hollywood like a mad man, but after a point i asked myself so what is next? is this the only way... and slowly started reading up a lot. Then it was a rather long journey through many cultures continents countries, individuals, ideologies so on. But all I can say is it is a rewarding trip and i consider that as the best part of my life even today. The channels where all kinds: books, Internet, film festivals, film societies, talks, VHS to DVD libraries, begging from private collectors, friends abroad, pirated market so on. The time, energy and money i spend on them has given me (and still giving me) a new world view and an aesthetic joy which is priceless. So I don't think a question of un availability of great cinema, it is a question of your interest and commitment towards yourself to explore the world / art on your own. And not expecting everything to be given to you in a platter. Believe me the day you say to yourself "what is shown to me is not satisfying the individual in me and i wish to move on in my search;" hundred of new films and people will be available to you. (Habitat in church street has one of the best collections i have seen in any dvd library... what he calls limelight collection.) Ok this i said is on a personal individual level, now if the question is about the availablity to every one, that is where the films societies and discussion groups like our's play its role. That leads to my second point:-
Arky said: As an active promoter of open discussions I often initiate and try to balancediscussion on both classics and common commercial cinema. Don't you think we should have healthy mix of both ? What sort of a balance are you taking about Arky? In a world where commercial interest has take over every possible channels to public space, and media has partnered them to tell the people that this is the only kind of film experience.....your kind of groups are the balance. You are without doubt on the other side, to balance this madness. In its own small way BFS, Collective Chaos, Suchitra are the people who should work as an over all balance to this highly commercialised times. Now asking for a politically correct balance within this side will defet the whole purpose. As i said before this stand is not with any hate to the "common commercial cinema" you referring to, but all i am saying is they have enough and more venues to reach the public and the power to keep people in control. We don't have to party to that with a group like our's (even though we love some of those films). I think the role of BFS or any similar group is to show the other side of MONEY. And talk about the other kinds of film experiences than "easily available"

Discussion: Favoritism of Multiplexes, What decides our consumption of western cinema

Tushar says: I appreciate and relish world cinema and make sure I never miss wherever it happens in town, but I am also an avid Mumbai cinema fan. And I feel that some movies, though brilliant, simply go unnoticed, just by coming under the Bollywood/commercial/mainstream umbrella. What amuses me all the more in a surprising way in which the town reacts to contemporary Hollywood in an all-appreciative tone(which might not always be all that worthy of attention-debatable) and simply scoffs at some of the good products we have but never see the light of the day. It makes me sad to see that movies like Black Friday, Bhopal Express, Paanch, n a million others never see the light of the day and their deserved moment of glory in multiplexes like PVR where people put enjoyment over the real credibility of a movie as a reason to see it(excuse me for generalizing). I have tried calling up these multiplex places to screen some good Indian and western movies which deserve a theatre watch than the omnipresent pirated DVDs we get almost in every street now. In fact sometimes the reasons they give me for not showing the same are hilarious. Few months back, we had a national digital film festival happening across the nation in almost 8 cities in which Bangalore didn't feature. Sad. With so many movie enthusiasts around, if we get deprived of good original cinema, it is really unfortunate on our part. I was just wondering if we could do something about it. By the way, I did happen to see Mixed Doubles and loved it and wouldcompletely agree with idio.

Sid says: Like some wise man put it ever so pithily.. It's all about money honey. And don't you ever make the mistake to think that multiplexes are out there to promote "niche' cinema. That's for the birds. Hell, if a Mithun B-grader would bring in the throngs they wouldn't hesitate one second from pulling out a lovingly crafted small 'multiplex' movie and replacing it with a monstrosity. If the multiplexes were really out for cinema's sake, how come I can't recollect a single foreign film (other than a horribly dubbed version of "Kung Fu Hustle") playing? Let's face it.. The multiplexes have been around for quite some time now. If they really cared for "good" and "different" cinema they'd have started doing something about it by now. Mumbai is slightly better though. Almost like dispensing grace, the multiplexes have surprised me once in a while by showing the great documentary "War and Peace" and a brilliant lil gem of a movie called "Manasarovar" by Anup Kurian starring Atul Kulkarni. And as for local cinema.. I’d blame the critics too. What critics.. Some like bootlicking sycophants. And the Times of India is the biggest ass-wipe newspaper that ever existed. All that fucking jargon- technosexual, metrosexual.... They are the one's who hand crappy movies like Zinda four whole stars. A shallow movie copied shamelessly and in the manner of a coward from a little Korean cult flick "Old BoY". And guess what Times had to say about it- nobody's seen the Korean flick.. so it doesn't make a difference. A newspaper justifying intellectual theft!!! Now, if tomorrow, i win a Super Lottery and put out a magazine called "Times of India".. i know they'd fucking sue me. Other fuck ups- Taxi 9211- three and a half. Copied shameless from the slick,topical, urban thriller "Changing Lanes." Rang De basanthi gets 4 while Hazaron Khwaishien gets 3 1/2. Waisa Bhi Hota Hai Part 2... a lovely movie, wholly original andquirky, a pyaar se banaayi hui uber-cool black comedy of a movie.. 2stars. Praan Jaaye par shaan na jaaye.. another very flawed yet crazy,different movie.. one and a half stars. Sehar gets 3 while Sarkar gets 3 and a 1/2. and the master shameless stroke.. Salaam Namaste gets 3 and 1/2 andNeal and Nikki gets 3. Fucking Sell-outs. Critics are supposed to promote good cinema andnot just Yash Chopra Productions. It’s rotten all through and through. Tushar says: Right said fredAs you said, multiplexes are all sold out to the sole purpose of making money- whichever way they get it, they will go for it. But amidst this furor of recycled trash churned out frequently, we also see some good stuff, what I am saying here is that these ¡¥underground¡¦ movies do not necessarily and always mean good cinema, but they do deserve a decent play. Even I missed Mansarovar, American Dreams, Lets Talk, or for that matter, even HazaaronKhwaaishen Aisi, at the theatre i mean, which probably just came and went). What makes meconcerned(and frustrated but hopeful at the same time) all the more about our city is the way cities like Chennai have a good tuning between the class and mass inclinations. They do have their decent share of ¡¥indie¡¦ stuff along with the potboilers and money spinners. Satyam, Chennai hosted the Digital Film Festival few months back, and if I am correct even earned some handsome money from it. So if these people say, ¡§Show me the money!¡¨ they sure would not lose any if they go ahead and showcase/package/sell these films to an already existing target audience. I recall seeing a crappy movie called One Dollar Curry and the theatre being 70% occupied. It is all subjective, but then how many of these so called mainstream flicks attract a 100% occupancy inspite of some ridiculously incorrect rating by newspapers like TOI(which I have an entire list of examples to prove how ridiculous can ridiculous get). And by the way, Mixed Doubles is taken off today¡ Tushar says:hmmm..i don't know about last five decades...but i have seen loads of hollywood flops/hits doing wonders in india irrespective of their US feat. I am not complaining against any kind of collective response to a film but I do not understand the reason for this wow-culture. we goto watch the "biggie" with the presupposition that it would be great, its similar to seeing a great painting, though it might not make sense to you, you still applause it for the fear of derision/ridicule being an 'outsider'. i accept doing that myself with few films i saw long back, but now I realize they were not worth all the applause. recently i saw the same trend with Crash. it almost becomes compulsive to embrace it just like an expensive dish served on the platter. what disturbs me all the more is the lack of any reason or justification for it being "great". its almost like goin to hum aapke hain kaun with our parents when we were small, and liking it just cus there was no other available option! few english that fall in this category would be the "disaster/save- the-world" movies of late nineties, does it ring a bell?! ...still waitin to see jarhead, good night and good luck, munich, matador,broken flowers, coach carter in theatres... Malvika says"like i said earlier, Indians believe anything foreign has got to be good, regardless. it does not pertain only to movies take food items to we tend to believe the quality of all foreign foods is good, there is no doubt about that in our minds but when it comes to indian brands we tend to think twice before purchasing it. This holds good for clothes appliances and many more. its Indian mentality. It's what we are thought and believe it blindly without questioning why or who put this image in our minds." Girish says:I don't know about food etc. but in case of cinema, you may have to re-write your argument with using the word 'American' instead of Foreign. If you are wondering who put this idea on our mind, you have only yourself to blame. We all have an obsession towards America that reflects in this group also. i was reading the list of films posted up by few of us in this group as the best films made in 2005-2006. All of them are American films, even though there are some amazing films are made in our neighboring countries, like Taiwan, Korea, Hong kong, Vietnam, Indonesia, Iran etc. Before we worry about why the public go behind the hype, we should see how far we gone on experimenting with our appreciation of films/cultures other than American/ English. Tushar says:I accept that we have veered the discussion to an "American" viewpoint. Actually the whole thing started off when the question of "How much Hollywood do we Indians consume"(commercially, as in theatrical releases) arose. And as it happens, we had all kinds of viewpoints that came up. I am completely in sync with you when you say that our opinions are US-centric, but personally, I happily accept that I am a consumer of the American culture and look up to the products that are churned from them, be it arts or science. This is no way means, that I hold these products the most-worthy of attention, but this is just a personal preference.I know that it would be foolish to talk for our(or in fact, any) society at large, but we have been programmed to "consume" Hollywood on a regular basis, it started with the advent of Satellite television and has continued ever since. However, it is a pity that amidst this blind worship, we tend to lose on many a brilliant films (and other forms of art) by other parts of the world. Some of film societies like us or people in big cities do get their dose of world cinema but what about the rest of the country? For them, it’s the Spiderman's and the Godzilla's. Infact, we as a collective group of film-fanatics (if I may use the term) can make a dent in this blind faith. Whenever I hear about any film that I feel is worthy of attention, I would be the first one to tell you all about it, be it from the US or any other country. Furthermore, I would like to reiterate that in our discussion we had been talking about the commercial consumption of non-indian cinema, which fortuantely or unfortunately, is largely american. hope I do not spark off any argument, and that you take my views in a a amiable color. Arky says:Well, every generation has common associations to certain words. Perhaps today when we say foreign it may be US-centered but our grandfathers’ generations it would have been Europe and England. I wouldn't like to comment on this topic because am not a student ofetymology, anyway its too ambiguous. Sid says:I'm not talking consumer goods, electronics or clothes here. I'll just keep it to 'cinema'. I think the postings are mixing 'good/bad' with 'curiosity'. I think that there is more 'curiosity' and interest in a foreign film than an Indian film. 'Good' and 'bad' are very subjective. And also, where there is art there are phonies. Flies to a ladoo, rule ay life. and if the 'best of' lists on the BFS posting featured American movies, i think it's solely because of the reason that they're easily available at your friendly neighborhood DVD-wallah or play at your grotesquely over-priced neighborhood multiplex. No one can argue that there have been fantastic and superior films being made in Korea and Taiwan over the past few years but the catch being:- How the fuck do i get to see them? Girish says:See, guys i am not in arguments for arguments sake, that is the reason why i don't write vey often on these groups. for example now the discussion happening in Collective Chaos group is insane, from past one month they are discussing one single topic, and the discussion didn't move an inch, only outcome is that people throwing mud at each other....... i am not interested that. i genuinely hope something nice will come out of all this talk. Over all i agree with Tushar on his views, and I respect his personal choice being a pro-American culture. Sure no arguments on that. But i would like to discuss two points come out or response to my mail, which i find worth few interactions. 1. idiosyncratic_fallout said: "No one can argue that there have been fantastic and superior flms being made in Korea and Taiwan over the past few years but the catch being:- How the fuck do i get to see them?" I think the search for a better cinema is the whole point. In my case I have started off with watching Hollywood like a mad man, but after a point i asked myself so what is next? is this the only way... and slowly started reading up a lot. Then it was a rather long journey through many cultures continents countries, individuals, ideologies so on. But all I can say is it is a rewarding trip and i consider that as the best part of my life even today. The channels where all kinds: books, Internet, film festivals, film societies, talks, VHS to DVD libraries, begging from private collectors, friends abroad, pirated market so on. The time, energy and money i spend on them has given me (and still giving me) a new world view and an aesthetic joy which is priceless. So I don't think a question of un availability of great cinema, it is a question of your interest and commitment towards yourself to explore the world / art on your own. And not expecting everything to be given to you in a platter. Believe me the day you say to yourself "what is shown to me is not satisfying the individual in me and i wish to move on in my search;" hundred of new films and people will be available to you. (Habitat in church street has one of the best collections i have seen in any dvd library... what he calls limelight collection.) Ok this i said is on a personal individual level, now if the question is about the availablity to every one, that is where the films societies and discussion groups like our's play its role. That leads to my second point:- Arky said: As an active promoter of open discussions I often initiate and try to balancediscussion on both classics and common commercial cinema. Don't you think we should have healthy mix of both ? What sort of a balance are you taking about Arky? In a world where commercial interest has take over every possible channels to public space, and media has partnered them to tell the people that this is the only kind of film experience.....your kind of groups are the balance. You are without doubt on the other side, to balance this madness. In its own small way BFS, Collective Chaos, Suchitra are the people who should work as an over all balance to this highly commercialised times. Now asking for a politically correct balance within this side will defet the whole purpose. As i said before this stand is not with any hate to the "common commercial cinema" you referring to, but all i am saying is they have enough and more venues to reach the public and the power to keep people in control. We don't have to party to that with a group like our's (even though we love some of those films). I think the role of BFS or any similar group is to show the other side of MONEY. And talk about the other kinds of film experiences than "easily available"